Justice 4 Brendan
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184 Posts
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20/04/2009 14:31:53
POST DATE
17/05/2009 11:30:15 |
I would like to start a thread about stories relating to Justice and Injustice, in the news..
Article about Arlene Fraser.
Police relaunch hunt for car.
http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/2009/05/17/exclusive-cops-to-quiz-arlene-fraser-murder-car-witness-over-claims-78057-21366123/
Article about Charles Hanson, who is a thorn in the prison system's side.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/may/17/charles-hanson-haircuts-blantyre-house-prison
Another who fights back against the system from prison.
John Bowden.
http://www.insidetime.org/articleview.asp?article=12
Sorry I've had to edit the post, the links weren't working. I've corrected them but was unable to find the one from the News of the World.
edited by admin on 17/05/2009
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"I hear much of people calling to punish the guilty, but few are concerned to clear the innocent" Daniel Defoe 1661-1731
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admin
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449 Posts
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08/04/2009 08:00:00
POST DATE
17/05/2009 12:25:50 |
A good thread topic, and one which will ensure that the all too brief coverage of miscarriages of justice at least continue to be highlighted on site. I have decided that any particularly relevant articles will be added to the page containing them on the main site to make them visible to visitors of the site who don't enter the forum also. However, I would request that these article links are checked before posting, dead links or links which have been entered incorrectly have a negative effect on search engine rankings. Often this can be cause by copying abbreviated link addresses from the address bar, so you should ensure that it is the complete link that is posted rather than ones which contain "..."
With reference to relevance, please open articles and read them before posting, often titles can be misleading. I agree completely with the posting of injustice articles within this forum, but articles relating to prisoner treatment etc should instead be posted under forum topics relating to that area of debate. This will make the thread all the more effective.
Thanks
Billy
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admin
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449 Posts
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08/04/2009 08:00:00
POST DATE
17/05/2009 13:22:55 |
Having now had time to read the articles posted above, I have returned to make comment on the one regarding prisoner hair-cuts. While I mean absolutely no criticism of the link poster, I would prefer if such links are posted purely with regard to those falsely accused or wrongly convicted in view of the site's aims and objectives.
My understanding from this article is that the person in question has in fact been rightly convicted of a crime since there is no suggestion anywhere within the text that there is any attempt at appeal or insistence of innocence. I certainly don't mean to be hard faced about the issue in any way, but there are many campaign groups who champion the rights of the rightly convicted's human rights and feel that this article is in fact more suited to them. My opinion is that we don't further the cause of the wrongly accused/convicted by placing them in the same focal point as those who are rightly punished for crimes they have committed.
Having said that, the removal of dignity from the wrongly convicted/remanded is a relevant point and for them, they will be receiving the same treatment or worse as those who are guilty which I suspect was Justice 4 Brendan's motive in posting the link. As such I have no intention of removing the link since it serves as a means of me firmly stating that I have no intention of representing those who are guilty (by way of this response), but would prefer that all future links relate solely to those who are wrongly accused/convicted and awaiting appeal on solid grounds.
My personal view is that while human rights must be observed, it is also necessary that those who are genuinely guilty are rightly punished and will be concentrating my efforts only in favour of those suffering from injustice.
edited by admin on 17/05/2009
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Justice 4 Brendan
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184 Posts
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20/04/2009 14:31:53
POST DATE
17/05/2009 14:15:51 |
Sorry Billy double checked all the links in other sites and they came up ok.
I added the story about Charles Hanson is i found it relevant to the story Battle weary has.
And i thought it is a topic when the case concerned is looked at will merit some concern regarding justice and Injustice.
Quote.
"The next example is from the United Kingdom. There is no question that this man deserves to be in prison. As the murder appears to have been premeditated, perhaps he should even be executed as he can be of no further value to society.
Yet it would appear that society drove him beyond despair and into violence.
Ask yourself who is the "victim" here and who the "perpetrator" ? Perhaps a different approach than hounding this man might have saved her, and many other women's lives"
Some might ask why does anyone commit Murder, Murder is commited for a reason be it money, love, revenge.
But i think with the Hanson case there is a fine line upon it, It is interesting and could be a topic of discussion was his case not tinted with Justice and Injustice in many peoples eyes.
http://www.electromagnetism.demon.co.uk/07085.htm
The story from the News of the world i highlighted as Sandra states it is not about Luke Mitchell but still manages to bring him in and slates him and causes upset for his family even though the story has no relation on the case.
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/scottish/scottish_news/310622/A-teenage-pal-of-murdered-Jodi-Jones-has-been-battered.html
edited by Justice 4 Brendan on 17/05/2009
edited by Justice 4 Brendan on 17/05/2009
edited by Justice 4 Brendan on 17/05/2009
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"I hear much of people calling to punish the guilty, but few are concerned to clear the innocent" Daniel Defoe 1661-1731
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admin
Member's Home Page
449 Posts
Member Since
08/04/2009 08:00:00
POST DATE
17/05/2009 17:02:30 |
No problem RE the links not working, they have been resolved now but occasionally copying links from other sites doesn't work due to the format they are placed on the site they are copied from, instead it is better to open the link and copy the entire address from your browsers address bar.
I would however like to reaffirm my position with regard to crimes which have undeniably been committed. While I certainly accept that there can be mitigating circumstances such as a persons upbringing or social problems they have faced, in terms of the particular crime you are highlighting, I simply don't accept that there is ever an excuse for murder. Which for the record is widely different in definition to accidental death caused by for example a persons right to defend themselves resulting in the loss of life providing the actions of someone defending themselves are proportionate to the attack upon themselves.
While a person can and often are as you describe it "driven" by some means to actions they would not normally consider, those are matters for the defence teams to utilize in securing a "proportional sentence" to what never the less is a crime. For example, if there are provable issues affecting a persons mental health at the time, then a secure mental hospital is more appropriate than a prison and in this instance society has been let down by the lack of care provided to an ill person.
However in the case you have highlighted, a murder was committed regardless of what social circumstances led up to the event and this person therefore has rightly been punished. I would however certainly accept that anyone responsible for the situation that led up to the event should be considered accessories to the fact and be held accountable for their actions also, but my opinion is that there is no excuse for murder.
Perhaps I can express what effect making excuses for crime would have on the integrity of the site if I allowed it to be included, would you be happy with Brendan being placed in the same category as a legitimately guilty murderer regardless of their excuse when he has committed no crime whatsoever? I don't think that Brendan or any other innocent person should be compared to a guilty person under any other circumstances than to demonstrate the difference between injustice and actual guilt.
To further my point, if someone has lived life never being taught the difference between right and wrong and instead always provided with an excuse for their actions, if they commit a crime they have still done wrong but the people responsible for failing them previously are also guilty of shaping that individuals circumstances to that where a crime is more likely to occur. Never the less, the individual is still once of legally responsible age accountable for their own actions. I'm quite sure that the vast majority of people would agree with me on that issue.
edited by admin on 17/05/2009
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Justice 4 Brendan
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184 Posts
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20/04/2009 14:31:53
POST DATE
17/05/2009 18:04:44 |
However in the case you have highlighted, a murder was committed regardless of what social circumstances led up to the event and this person therefore has rightly been punished. I would however certainly accept that anyone responsible for the situation that led up to the event should be considered accessories to the fact and be held accountable for their actions also, but my opinion is that there is no excuse for murder.
Perhaps I can express what effect making excuses for crime would have on the integrity of the site if I allowed it to be included, would you be happy with Brendan being placed in the same category as a legitimately guilty murderer regardless of their excuse when he has committed no crime whatsoever? I don't think that Brendan or any other innocent person should be compared to a guilty person under any other circumstances than to demonstrate the difference between injustice and actual guilt.
Yes a murder was commited.
But look at cases where a Woman has snapped after years of abuse and killed their partner, i was highlighting the difference where that would be treated by the public in another way if you get my meaning, would a Woman get life.
Yes Mr Hanson holds his hands up to murder because he did commit it, he is highlighting his reasons that took him over the line to commit the ultimate sin.
Did he deserve life? would a Woman be shown more compassion by a jury? What was his mental status ect.
I also understand your words in relation to Brendan, people will allways think they got what they deserved i cant stop that, all i can do is highlight only some of the facts about case, as appeal is still pending, i dont like people saying he got what he deserves and wish he was hung, but on the other hand i understand they are ignorant about the case and only want to believe what they read in Newspapers, everyone has the right to opinion.
"so in that respect that is what sites like this are about."
To Highlight the wrong doings in the justice system and let people decide for themselves if a Miscarraige of justice has happened.
But i think it is a good topic to merit debate.
I would like to see if anyone on the forum thinks the same, Re/ Would a woman have got life under the circumstances.
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"I hear much of people calling to punish the guilty, but few are concerned to clear the innocent" Daniel Defoe 1661-1731
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admin
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08/04/2009 08:00:00
POST DATE
17/05/2009 18:41:49 |
I'm afraid I still disagree with this being included in the forum and I am confident that others will agree with my reasoning. I certainly know that I myself have been and still am deeply offended with being compared to guilty people regardless of their circumstances and treated in many ways worse than they have, and I know that my family are too. In the circumstances you are presenting the only right thing to do is seek prosecution for the abuse the person has suffered, not commit murder. That is the case regardless of whether they be a man or a woman and I repeat that my opinion is that murder is simply wrong. I do as I stated above agree that there are certain mitigating circumstances which would affect sentence or in some cases even conviction but repeat that those are grounds for any defence team to argue in terms of the sentence imposed, and any convicted person does have the right to appeal against the harshness of sentence should the correct circumstances exist.
But to put not too fine a point on it, this site concerns the wrongly accused and wrongly convicted, not the guilty. I will not now, or at any point in the future allow it to become a place where guilty people come to say how hard done by they feel at being prosecuted, as I said there are other places which champion the human rights of the guilty and those are matters for them to discuss. I am and always will be concentrating my efforts on those who have been treated wrongly by the criminal justice process when they are innocent and think that including other areas very much detracts from the many cases which exist where either no crime has been committed at all or the wrong person is persecuted for one which has.
I want you to understand that I mean absolutely no offense to you for your opinion on that matter and agree that there often are circumstances relating to the guilty which should rightly affect the sentence they receive whatever sex they are, and that sexual equality very much should be seen to exist in areas concerning crimes which are committed. I do think however, and again I repeat that I certainly mean no offense in any way whatsoever, that your energy would be better placed focusing on the innocent rather than differences of sentences of the guilty.
By that I mean that surely your own reasons for being affected by injustice are given more credence by discussing how someone can be convicted of a crime when their DNA was not present but 4 other sample's were, and that a witness for the prosecution was seen in the crime scene around the time when the offence was committed rather than arguing over how harsh someone else's sentence was.
I'm sure, almost certain in fact that other forum members will agree and am personally offended even after acquittal that the issue of genuinely guilty people has been raised on a site intended to support the wrongly accused and their families implying that a guilty persons treatment should in any way be compare to that of my own. The two instances are simply not compatible, sorry.
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Justice 4 Brendan
Member's Home Page
184 Posts
Member Since
20/04/2009 14:31:53
POST DATE
17/05/2009 18:55:09 |
Sorry will keep on the jubject matter only.
I put it in the News section for debate and opinion.
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"I hear much of people calling to punish the guilty, but few are concerned to clear the innocent" Daniel Defoe 1661-1731
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Billys Ma N Pa
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18 Posts
Member Since
10/05/2009 17:51:54
POST DATE
17/05/2009 21:48:39 |
We fully agree with Billy's stance on the point that any threads on this forum should be kept to the subject matter i.e. 'To help others who find themselves in the unfortunate position of being WRONGLY ACCUSED'. This is the whole reason for Billy's setting up this site and for that reason we feel that the Mr Hanson case is not a relevant thread to follow.
We are fully supportive of Justice for Brendan as it seems a genuine and relevant case. Good luck.
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Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Martin Luther King Jr.
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SandraLean
36 Posts
Member Since
27/04/2009 08:57:53
POST DATE
18/05/2009 09:32:46 |
When I first started doing this work, I was inundated with cases of people claiming "injustice" in its many and varied forms. However, my concern was, and still is, wrongful accusation and/or conviction of the factually innocent.
We can each only do so much, and it is for each of us to decide where our energies are best devoted to do the most good. For me, that was wrongly accused or convicted innocent people, and I have an absolute rule never to take on cases outwith that definition.
This site is very clear in its intention and motivation - to support innocent people who have been wrongly accused. Discussion of cases of guilt can be carried out on sites which make that their primary point of focus, but I think they're somewhat inappropriate here.
Again, no offence intended personally to Justice4Brendan, I just believe that, for this site to do the maximum good, it must maintain its focus, and use its energies to the best of its ability to help wrongly accused innocent people - there are other places where the "wider" issues can be aired, but this site has to, of necessity, concentrate on its main objective.
Just thought I'd add my thoughts on this one
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UNIQUE VISITORS
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